We are using NFP. It's been so different this time I think because we feel much more strongly about waiting After L was born we wanted some space but we knew we wanted another baby not too far down the line. We avoided until she was 15 months old then decided to go for it on a whim and baby J was conceived (I was not cycling for nine of those months though).
But this time I do not feel that desire for a baby. I don't know if it's due to exhaustion or what, but I know that I feel no pull towards adding a third child. And it feels very un-Catholic, with my scrupulosity kicking in that is. A feels the same. I realize we have good reasons to postpone for now, but currently I want to postpone forever, and I feel bad I feel that way (oh what a tangled feeling web...).
My guess is that this wish to stop is due mostly to the craziness of the last few years. The last four years have been incredible for us, full of so much joy. But the amount of change we have gone through is insane--moves, engagement, babies, marriage, several job changes, extended family drama. I feel a bit dizzy thinking about all of the changes in our lives, especially considering that six years ago A and I had not even met, and I was just a college student living in a dorm, studying English. Just a year before that I was a community college student living in my parents' house. So I'm sure much of our apathy towards having more kids is because it has been so nice these last few months (since A got his new job) not having any major changes on the docket. We've finally had time to actually pay attention to our own health, and to bettering our relationship. We've gone on dates, started working out, done some house projects, and spent lots of time with our kids. So the idea of seeking pregnancy right now sounds absolutely terrible. I don't mean to offend anyone struggling with infertility, and of course if we somehow got pregnant now we would love the kid to death. But I am of the very firm persuasion that I can't really love someone who does not exist (once that person starts existing then I am so there).
Anyway, so this determination for some time to adjust to all the many changes in our lives has helped us practice NFP fairly well, for us anyway. We are only a few cycles in, but we made it through the completely awful post postpartum transition which is a huge victory.
But as I said above, I feel very not Catholic about it. I don't want to be open to pregnancy again, and a part of me feels that is not acceptable. The way I grew up we learned a touch of providentialism, so I struggle to realize that we are not required to have as many kids as possible. And currently I am feeling so excited to see our kids get older. I am loving seeing L as a kid rather than a baby, and getting to have conversations with her. I want to keep growing up with our kids, not get plunged back into the newborn days over and over again. A is much less scrupulous than I, and says that as long as we strive to follow Church teaching regarding NFP we can make our choices. I, on the other hand, am having a hard time shaking off the 'must have big family' mentality, plus I worry about our ability to practice NFP long term. I hope to expand on this more later, but as of now I am still a bit internet shy.
November
The discernment can be tough but it sounds like you and your DH have given this much thought. I have struggled with scrupulosity as well. Have you sought out a spiritual director on this matter? It might help you to stand firm in whatever decision y'all make. The great thing about NFP is that you are pretty much evaluating your intentions in its use every cycle and y'all can change your decision at any time.
ReplyDeleteWe have not sought a spiritual director but that is a good idea. In the past we didn't because our local parish is really really intense and we aren't comfortable talking to the priests there, but we recently started going to a new church and we could definitely talk to the pastor....something to consider.
DeleteI don't think you have to feel one way or another and that's the way it will be forever. Like Kat said, every cycle, you have the ability to change your minds.
ReplyDeleteBefore Luke was born, I had no idea how very hard it is to raise a baby. Blissfully ignorant, I guess. It is hard work! I don't think you're selfish for wanting to postpone a pregnancy. It is how you feel now, and we all know that feelings sometimes change.
I admire you so much for sharing your thoughts at this moment! It is nice to get things down on paper sometimes as you can go back & relive the moments again. Perhaps your mind will change, perhaps it won't, but I don't think not wanting to expand your family is "not Catholic." Families come in all sizes.
(hope my ramblings make sense. :-) )
I know parenting is so hard! It's awesome, but so hard and I often get worried about not being present for the kids we already have if we just plowed along and had more babies rapidly. I have friends you are doing just that and it looks so exhausting.
DeleteGetting things down on paper does help, along with talking to my husband about it.
Thank you for the encouragement!
Hi, I came over here from the Such a Pretty Bubble blog. I just wanted to say I can SO relate to this!!
ReplyDeleteMy husband and I got married one year after college graduation, and we’ve been married almost ten years now. The first two years out of college were INSANE. During that period, I graduated from college, got my first job, got my first apartment, bought a house, got married, suffered from sexual dysfunction right after we got married (vaginismus), had an unplanned pregnancy, had horrible morning sickness, lost my job twice (including once when I was pregnant), found out from a former boss that I had been fired BECAUSE I was pregnant and tried to sue my former company, switched health insurance seven times (including three times during the pregnancy), and had a 4th-degree tear during labor, which means all subsequent births have to be a c-section.
In the next few years after my daughter was born, things calmed down a little bit, but both of us were working full-time, I was desperate to stay home with my daughter but we couldn’t afford it, we moved again, my husband went to grad school, we had a lot of difficulty with NFP and many pregnancy scares, I was finally diagnosed with PCOS after many years and going to multiple doctors about my weird cycles (including NFP-only doctors who also had a hard time diagnosing me), and I was constantly getting sick from the stress of working and taking care of a baby. I had mono, shingles, and about ten colds a year.
Our second child was also a surprise, but she fortunately didn’t come along until my husband was done with grad school and we could afford to have me cut back to working part time after she was born. Our first two kids are four and a half years apart, and I am so, so, so glad we managed to not conceive our second child a minute earlier. I had a very dangerous complication with the second child (severe preeclampsia), which subsequently caused me to develop pretty severe health anxiety and panic attacks, which have fortunately mostly gone away at this point. I decided I didn’t want to have any more kids after that, because of the preeclampsia. (con’t)
Then we had a third surprise right before our second turned two, which resulted in a major crisis in our marriage and my husband saying he would rather get divorced than continue to use NFP. (But no preeclampsia this time, fortunately). I have heard it is not a sin to use contraception if your spouse insists and you honestly believe it is for the good of the marriage, so now we use condoms sometimes in conjunction with NFP. I have taken some classes in the Creighton method (we were using STM) and continue to pray that I will be able to convince my husband to go back to just NFP.
ReplyDeleteNow, our kids are 8, 4, and 18 months. I am absolutely certain I don’t want any more kids. In addition to our many, many serious reasons, I am like you in that I really enjoy watching them grow up, and being plunged back into the newborn stage is the last thing in the world I want to do. I also worry about being able to be a good mother and give them enough attention. I don’t understand the “baby hunger” that some mothers get even though they already have kids. That has NEVER happened to me. Sure, *before* I had kids, I had a strong desire to be a mother. I was never ambivalent about having kids, I loved babies and always wanted to hold them, etc. But I feel like that desire was completely fulfilled with my first child. Of course I adore all my kids now that they’re here, but if I had had secondary infertility after the first child, I would have been totally OK with that. (Though not being able to have kids at all would have been devastating). Maybe the reason I feel this way is the circumstances surrounding the conceptions and births of our children. The stress has killed any desire for more children.
I hope and pray my husband returns to the Catholic faith and agrees to just NFP, but even if that happens, we will almost certainly be avoiding for the rest of our marriage. It drives me crazy when Catholics imply that you have to have a big family. Some people are just not called to it.
Another thing that annoys me is that Christopher West said that couples should feel “sad” about not having another child if they have a serious reason to avoid. I don’t think that’s Catholic teaching. You can’t tell people how to feel!! It’s enough just to use NFP.
Sorry I wrote a novel! I can’t seem to stop venting about all this stuff.
Hi Anonymous!
DeleteThanks for telling your story. It's always good to hear from people who have been doing this marriage and kids thing longer than I have.
I have not gone through nearly the hardships that you have encountered in married life, and I am amazed that you are still so dedicated to NFP despite the hardship (I do not think I would have the strength to stick to it, but that is for another post).
I also have never had that baby fever thing. Honestly, when I was younger I didn't really want kids because I didn't feel a particular pull towards them. I figured I was going to become a nun and avoid the whole ordeal. I did not feel positive about having kids of my own until I was actually pregnant. For me the kid thing has been very specific. I love my kids, but I didn't feel anything really for them before they were conceived (I know some women do love their kids before they exist, but it was just too abstract for me. I have found love to be very specific). So I feel no pull towards a kid that may or may not exist in the future.
Anyway, I think you are right that it is ok to avoid having more kids even indefinitely. I know things could change for us and we could decide to have another. Right now I am more worried about NFP 'tricking' us into getting pregnant when we are not ready. By that I mean I am worried that in a moment of desire we will use a somewhat risky day and get pregnant when we really shouldn't. Sigh.
To be honest,the only reason I have stuck with NFP is fear of going to hell. :/
DeleteI have been told many times that feelings are feelings, neither virtues nor sins.
ReplyDeleteAnd there is the thought that sometimes feelings exist for a reason, and that your feelings make sense because you are, well, where you are.
That leaves the question of actions, and that only needs to be decided for *today* and clearly you are doing what is right for your family and marriage today.
If it helps you to think through all possible situations, then go for it. But you don't have to worry about whether you are wrong for wanting (or even planning!) to avoid pregnancy forever. You also do not have to worry about a zillion years of abstinence. The truth is that you only have to live today, and that it is somewhat silly to imagine that your life and desires will not change at all one way or another over the next 10-20 years.
One of the things that seems oh-so-common among NFP-types is youthful planning out of the rest of their reproductive lives. I typically see this in women who declare that they will never again deliberately avoid pregnancy. I used to argue with some about it, but eventually I saw that time typically changes their minds far better than my brilliant arguments ever could. ;-)
And I finally realized that we are all** at risk for the sin of arrogance in imagining that we can know both ourselves and our future (thus including our future selves) well enough to make permanent declarations about things which God has determined to be constantly changing.
So this is ridiculously long, but basically I urge you to not worry at all about not being Catholic enough in your feelings. You know what is right for you today, and that is awesome. Keep reminding yourself of all the Truth that you know, and hopefully your feelings will catch up soon enough. :-)
**Or maybe this is just me. I *love* to plan. Everything. Forever.
Thanks Rae. Yeah I tend to plan way too far ahead in life rather than taking it one day at a time. And a good reminder about feelings being feelings, not sinful or good by nature.
DeleteOn a slightly funnier note, if you're feeling scrupulous, why not go all scrupulous about Ephesians 5:22, and feel guilty about the fact that you are feeling guilty about something your husband clearly thinks is right? Obviously that is a sign that you are failing in your proper role as a submissive wife. ;-)
ReplyDeleteI totally fail at being a submissive wife ;)
DeleteYou know, it has been a lot of stuff going on for you in the last several years. I don't think it's bad to want to wait for a while (or even indefinitely). My personal opinion (which is not Gospel, so feel free to ignore ;)) is that it is important to pray to be open to God's will, whatever that is, but it is much less important to be all that open to having another child soon, or ever. I know many good Catholic women who feel this way, particularly after so much going on, and often those feelings change over times, but not always. As Rae notes, it's really about taking one day at a time and this day, at this time, it sounds like you're doing what's right for you and your family!
ReplyDeleteThanks CM! Good reminder about being open to God's will in our lives, rather than focusing on specifics.
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